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Tag Archives: RV Inverter

Converters and Inverters – What Is The Difference When It Comes To Battery Charging?

04 Wednesday Jan 2023

Posted by Coach-Net in RV Information, Tech Tips, Tips & Tricks

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

RV Camping, RV converter, RV electrical, RV Inverter, RV Power, RV Safety, RV Tips

There have been several inquiries from owners, old and new, about converters and inverters, and it’s clear that there is some confusion about their capabilities and functions. This is completely understandable, as there are various types of converters and an even greater number of inverters! So, let’s dive in!

Converter

A converter is basically a battery charger that receives 120-volt AC power from either a campground source or a generator and turns it into 12-volt DC power to charge the house battery or batteries. The most basic converter is located in a distribution center alongside the 120-volt circuit breakers and is called an all-in-one unit similar to this style.

The converter/charger is located behind the vents or grills on the right side and has a dedicated circuit breaker which is usually the one closest to the converter.

These are a less expensive model, however, they can be noisy and produce heat so some manufacturers are moving to a standalone model and putting it under the bed or inside cabinetry. There is still a distribution center with circuit breakers and 12-volt automotive-style fuses, but the converter/charger is hidden.

Above is a photo of a WFCO installed under the bed behind a false wall. They can be difficult to find and even more difficult to remove and install the new converter when looking to install lithium batteries!

A typical converter is connected to the house batteries and senses the charge. When the batteries are low, (approximately 50% drained) the converter will provide a charge of approximately 13.6-volts until the batteries reach 12.6-volts which is fully charged. Then the converter will drop to a float charge of 13.2-volts in order to avoid overcharging the battery/batteries.

The disadvantage is that it does not provide proper charging and maintenance. Sulfur will coat the lead plates in lead acid and AGM battery as it drains and only a high voltage charge known as the bulk charge or desulfation charge will break up the coating. Otherwise, it just gets thicker with each draw and eventually greatly reduces the battery’s ability to store power. It can also take 8 hours or longer to charge.

Progressive Dynamics offers a charger that provides 13.8-volts for 8 hours, which creates some desulfation, and the PD9200 with Charge Wizard also does a nice job.

A multi-stage charger will provide a bulk charge at 14.6-16-volts that will break up the sulfation and then moves to an equalizing charge to equalize each cell, followed by a float charge.

NOTE: You do not want to use this type of charger with Lithium Batteries as they require only a 14.6-volt charge and the bulk stage could ruin them!

There is very little maintenance required with either the all-in-one version or the standalone other than to monitor the condition of your lead acid battery/batteries. It is also recommended to periodically check all wiring connections for corrosion and tight fitting. If a converter goes bad it will either lose its ability to charge or not come out of the initial higher charge of 13.6-13.8 volts overcharging the batteries. Be sure to check the fluid level of the battery and in my opinion, it is a good idea to get a good battery monitor other than the three-light versions on the monitor panel.

The monitor shown below is a Go Power! product and is the version we installed in our Thor.

Inverter/Charger

An inverter is designed to take 12-volt DC power from the house battery bank and change or invert it to 120-volt AC power for appliances and outlets. Smaller inverters were first used with the entertainment centers to power just the TV and VCR and were about 100 watts. This was designed to power the TV while boondocking or dry camping temporarily and did not power anything else in the rig.

As more power was needed for other outlets and appliances such as residential refrigerators, larger inverters came along such as the Freedom 2000 which also had a battery charger incorporated.

This type of inverter would not only take 12-volt power from a larger battery bank and provide pure sine wave 120-volt power to several outlets and the residential refrigerator but would also provide a multi-stage charge to the house batteries.

Several companies have made their way into the market with inverters/chargers as low as 1000-watt models. The key in deciding which is right for you is to look at what wattage requirements you need for your rig, the battery bank you have, and the amp rating of the charger.

Companies with a reliable track record according to the RV manufacturers and service centers that I have worked with are Go Power, Xantrex, Victron which Keystone uses, and Renogy.

As with a converter, there is very little maintenance required for inverters other than battery maintenance and periodic checking of connections for corrosion.

Which Do I Need, A Converter Or An Inverter/Charger?


Usually, you don’t have a choice as the rig comes from the factory with a distribution center that has a converter/charger incorporated. This is either in the distribution center, standalone, or an inverter with a charging option.

The time to decide is when the converter fails or you want to upgrade your battery capacity. The determining factor is the amount of time you will be boondocking or dry camping. An inverter is only needed if you are not going to be plugged into a campground source and need to run some 120-volt appliances which would need an inverter or generator power.


About the author: Dave Solberg: Managing Editor, RV Repair Club

For the last 25 years, Dave has conducted RV maintenance and safety seminars, developed dealer and owner training programs, written RV safety and handyman articles authored an RV handbook reference guide, and logged over 100,000 miles on the road in an RV.

RV Repair Club

RV Repair Club is your go-to online resource for enthusiasts who want quality RV maintenance, repair, and upgrade information – a community where passionate RVers can come together to gather knowledge and share their experiences.

Learn more about RV Repair Club.


Ryan C. ~ “Coach-Net was exceptional and did all the leg work to get my tow. They took care of the billing, and all I had to do was wait for the tow truck. No paperwork on site and no hassle whatsoever!”

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Pure Sine Wave Versus Modified Sine Wave Inverters

07 Wednesday Jul 2021

Posted by Coach-Net in Tech Tips

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Tags

Modified Sine Wave Inverter, RV Camping, RV Inverter, RV tech tips, Sine Wave Inverters

An inverter allows you to use your RV batteries to run AC appliances. They come in all sizes, and systems can be built to run everything from desk fans to air conditioners (if you have the battery power). All inverters are not equal, however. There are a few ways that these devices turn the DC power from your batteries into AC, and not all of them work well on all devices.

What is a sine wave?

Source

The image above shows a sine wave. It’s a wave that oscillates between positive and negative numbers at the same rate over time. The next question is, how does that relate to electricity?

Direct current, or DC, flows in one direction through a circuit. To put it another way, when you hook up a battery to a lightbulb, the power flows out of the battery, in one end of the light, out the other end, and then follows the wire back into the battery. Graphing this electrical flow over time would result in a straight line.

Alternating current, or AC, moves both forward and backward. In other words, the power alternates direction. Keeping the graph above in mind, imagine the wavy line as electricity moving forward through a wire, then slowing to a stop, and then starting to move backward faster and faster until it reaches the opposite stopping point. This process happens over and over again. It’s kind of like rubbing your hands back and forth to create heat. The graph is a visual representation of that AC power sloshing back and forth.

The reason DC and AC differ in how they move has to do with how the power is typically generated. There is no need to go into detail about the mechanics of generating electricity, though. The main point here is that some electrical devices in our RVs like computers, LED lights, and phones run off DC power. Appliances like coffee makers, microwaves, fans, phone wall chargers, and TVs all require AC power in some capacity to function.

Unless you have a generator, which produces AC power, you are stuck with DC power from your RV’s batteries when your RV isn’t plugged in. An inverter will convert DC from your batteries into AC so that you can run AC appliances from your DC batteries.

How An Inverter Works

Imagine you have a flashlight powered by one battery. Since a battery is DC, the current will flow in one direction through the light to power it. Imagine you quickly take the battery out, flip it around, and put it back in the flashlight. The light would still work, but the current would be flowing in the opposite direction. If you could flip that battery around repeatedly at around 50 times a second, the current direction would be alternating.

That is precisely how a basic mechanical alternator works. Unfortunately, this method doesn’t produce a smooth sine wave because instead of the current gradually changing direction, it does so abruptly. The resulting wave looks like a square wave.

Source

A square wave will run AC devices, but many of them don’t like it. Things with motors tend to overheat, and electronic devices with a computer chip may not function at all. Fortunately, you won’t find inverters that produce a simple square wave for the most part.

Most modern inverters use various electrical components to produce what is called a “modified sine wave.” In essence, they try to gradually alternate current directions like true AC. The resulting graph looks more like a stair-step pattern.

Source

As you can see from the photo above, the modified sine wave looks a little bit like the pure sine wave pictured above. If your electrical device doesn’t need a pure sine wave inverter, such as an incandescent lightbulb, a heater, a toaster, or any other device that doesn’t really care what the quality of current is, then a modified sine wave inverter works great.

Unfortunately, when it comes to electronic devices such as computers, fluorescent lighting, speakers, AC motors (fans, refrigerators, air compressors), and some CPAP machines, a modified sine wave inverter doesn’t work as well. Aside from flickering lights and wacky computer issues, a modified sine wave inverter causes many devices to run inefficiently. In other words, power is lost in the form of heat. The result of devices running hot is a reduced lifespan.

Pure Sine Wave Inverters

A pure sine wave inverter, like the name implies, uses more expensive components that duplicate the pure sine wave that you would find coming out of a household plug. Anything you can run with a household plug will run just fine with a pure sine wave inverter.

Which one should you get?

It’s probably apparent by now that a pure sine wave inverter is the better of the two. Unfortunately, it is also the more expensive of the two. If you already have an inverter in your RV and are unsure of what type it is, your manual should tell you. If you don’t have a manual, you can always find the make and model on the device and google it to find out.

If you have a modified sine wave inverter, take a look at how you use it. Computers are probably not a good idea, but devices like laptop plugs that convert AC to DC with a rectifier will work fine. The disadvantage is it may wear out your laptop charger. If you run fans, fridges, or other devices with an AC motor using your modified sine wave inverter, they can prematurely wear. If you travel with a CPAP machine, make sure you confirm that it will run with a modified sine wave inverter, as some don’t.

Bottom Line

Upgrading to a pure sine wave inverter is the optimal choice, but most RVers can run many of the things they need with a cheaper modified sine wave inverter if it’s not in your budget. They just have to be aware of what they are plugging into it.

RV Technical Assistance Hotline

Basic electrical issues and other problems are common, and not everyone is an RV repair expert. However, did you know that your Coach-Net Premier Plan comes with access to the RV Technical Hotline? It’s available to you 24/7 to guide you through many common operational issues. Call the Roadside Assistance phone number on your member card to be connected to a technician.


About The Author: Levi Henley

Levi Henley and his wife, Natalie, have been full-time RVers for over 5 years. They have also been Coach-Net customers for the same amount of time.  They travel and workcamp around the U.S. in their 26-foot Itasca Sunstar motorhome with their two cats.  They write for multiple RV-related publications and recently co-wrote “Seasonal Workamping for a Living: How We Did It.” You can follow their adventures on the road at henleyshappytrails.com 

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David O. ~ “I was stranded miles from anywhere and the help and service was truly amazing. So thankful for the high level of service”

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RV Battery Types and The Power They Provide

23 Wednesday May 2018

Posted by Coach-Net in Tech Tips

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

RV Batteries, RV battery types, RV converter, RV Inverter, RV tech tip, RV tech tips, RV Tips, tech tip

RV Battery Types12-volt Deep Cycle batteries are the lifeline for RV enjoyment.  Not only do they power the common 12-volt functions like lights, roof vents, and such, but are also essential for powering any appliance running on the LP mode and even the absorption refrigerator on the 120-volt mode as the temperature sensor and monitor panel are powered by the 12-volt batteries!12-Volt battery

For the past 50+ years, RVs have mainly been powered by deep cycle, lead acid batteries which have lead plates placed vertically and are covered with a solution of water and sulfuric acid commonly called electrolyte.  In the RV application there is either a 12-volt battery that consists of 6 cells with plates, each producing 2.1 volts per cell.

The other type is a 6-volt batteries connected in series (positive to negative) which creates 12-volts, however two batteries are needed in this application.  There are only 3 cells per battery and each produces 2.1 volts per cell, so each battery produces 6.3 volts or 12.6 volts total just like the single 12-volt battery.  Each cell consists of a positive lead plate covered with lead dioxide and a negative plate made of a specific type of lead with an insulating material placed between the two plates.

These batteries require a specific multistage charging procedure each month and are subject to sulfation if not stored and charged properly.  They “gas” during the bulk stage charge and lose acid which requires periodic inspection.  Most owners do not properly charge and store their lead acid batteries and therefore they have become a hot topic for replacement options.

Gel batteries where introduced in the Mid 70’s and still maintained the lead plates, but had a gel acid instead of the liquid which was designed to be a superior battery with less maintenance.

AGM batteryThen came the AGM or absorbed glass mat battery which was maintenance free and literally had fiberglass mats inside the battery to absorb the acid and could be stored sideways!  Many RVers believe that replacing the lead acid batteries with AGMs will double the power available.  This is not true, rather the AGM batteries require less maintenance and are less prone to sulfation.  This makes them a more powerful battery only after the lead acid batteries develop sulphur between the plates and lose storage capacity!

In 1980 Lithium Ion batteries were introduced, but were not used much until the early 2000’s as the price was out of this world!

12-volt deep cycle batteries are simply storage devices for power, they can not produce or create voltage without receiving a charge from an outside source known as a charger from either a converter, solar panel, or other source.  The size of the plates and amount of electrolyte determine the storage capacity or amp hours (AH) the battery can provide.  These are classified in terms of “Group” ratings such as Group 24, Group 27 etc.  The higher the group rating, the higher the amp hours and therefore the longer the battery can provide power before needing a recharge.  A typical battery rated for 125 AH can provide 10 amps of power for 12.5 hours, or 20 amps of power for 6.25 hours.

Lead Acid Discharge and Sulfation

When a 12-volt source is activated, such as an interior light or roof vent, a chemical reaction between the lead plates and the electrolyte occurs which produces the energy for the light.  This chemical reaction also begins to coat the positive and negative plates with a yellow build up known as lead sulfate which is normal during the discharge process. Lead sulfate continues to coat the plates as the battery discharges to the 10.5 volt stage at which time they are completely covered.

Lead sulfate can be reconditioned back to lead and electrolyte if conditioned or recharged properly and immediately.  If left in a discharged stage the lead sulfate will form hard crystals that can not be converted back to lead and electrolyte and will diminish the storage capacity.

When not in use, all lead acid batteries will discharge, the rate depends on the condition of the battery, temperature, and what parasitic draw is on the battery.  Typically a battery with no sulfation and with no additional draw, will discharge at approximately 4% per week.

A 125 AH battery left in storage without a charger will lose 5 AH per week which means it will lose 80 AH capacity in four months or well over 50% of it’s capacity in just one year!

Proper Recharging

Lead acid batteries require a multistage charge every month which starts with a bulk charge or high voltage (16V) charge which breaks up the Lead Sulfate on the plates and then goes into an equalizing and float charge.  Typical converters and battery chargers are simply a fixed voltage charger that recognizes a low charge (10.5v) and applied a fixed charge of 13.6 volts, which can not reconvert the lead sulfate on the plates.  Plus, the recharge time is very long compared to a multistage charger.

Some larger inverter/chargers do have a multistage charger which will condition the batteries.  Check your system to see if the charger of your inverter has a multistage and conditioning feature.  During the recharge stage, the water is being converted back to hydrogen and oxygen “gases” and can be flammable.  That is why they are contained in a vented compartment.  This is also why lead acid batteries need to have water added periodically as well.  Sealed batteries such as the AGM type contain the gases and keep them with the electrolyte.Vent well

There are some alternatives to getting a very expensive inverter/charger such as the Battery Minder from Northern Tool.  This device has had much success in the aviation and golf cart industry and is starting to turn some heads in the RV market.  The Battery Minder uses high impact waves rather than high voltage to condition the batteries which means less gassing and less water loss.

Progressive Dynamics has introduced converters/chargers with a smart charging system called the Charge Wizard which recognized the condition of the battery and adjusts the charge accordingly to provide proper conditioning.  For more on their system visit https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/power-converters/

Here are some quick tips for better battery maintenance:

  1. Use a multistage charger or conditioner
  2. Check your fluid level before every trip and add as needed
  3. Match the correct size battery with your 12-volt needs.  Don’t expect to dry camp for days on a group 24 battery!
  4. Find ways to reduce your need for battery power during dry camping such as
  5. Using the campfire to cook and make coffee
  6. Replace halogen and incandescent bulbs with LED
  7. Use a portable Catalytic Heater vs the RV furnace

About the author:

Dave Solberg: Managing Editor, RV Repair Club

For the last 25 years, Dave has conducted RV maintenance and safety seminars, developed dealer and owner training programs, written RV safety and handyman articles, authored an RV handbook reference guide and logged over 100,000 miles on the road in an RV.

RV Repair ClubRV Repair Club is your go-to online resource for enthusiasts who want quality RV maintenance, repair, and upgrade information – a community where passionate RVers can come together to gather knowledge and share their experiences.

Learn more about RV Repair Club.

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The RV Electrical System – Part 2

04 Wednesday May 2016

Posted by Coach-Net in Tech Tips

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

RV converter, RV Electrical System, RV Inverter, RV tech tip, RV Tips, RV Transfer Switch, tech tip

Electricity Part 2This article is the second part of my electrical system primer. This week I will cover the 120V AC system.

When not plugged into shore power, the batteries will power your DC house system directly. As mentioned last week, these systems include, among other things, coach interior lights, bathroom and vent fans, furnace, slide-out and leveling systems, and direct ignition gas appliances. RV Converter When the coach is plugged in, the shore power is shared between the 120V AC appliances and the converter or inverter. Most coaches, except after-market installs and high-end diesels, utilize converters.

Converters come in many forms, and combine with the AC breakers and DC fuses to create the coach power distribution center. When the coach is plugged into shore power these components combine to serve three distinct purposes; the converter section takes some of the AC power from the shore line, converts it to 12V DC, and uses it to charge the batteries, while providing the coach with power for the DC appliances through the 12V fuse panel. The distribution section acts much the same as the breaker panel in your house, as it sends 120V AC to the house appliances through the breaker panel.

Inverters work the opposite way, in that they take 12V DC from the batteries and step it up to 120V AC. There are many different types of inverters, from the simple to the more complex that include battery charging functionality. Inverters even in their simplest form are fairly complex devices that require professional servicing should anything go wrong. As such, they will not be discussed in further detail here.

If your coach has a generator, there is a further element to consider. Once again, generator problems are outside the scope of this article, but there are some things to check if you have power problems with the generator that don’t occur with shore power, or vice-versa. If you have AC power while on shore power, Transfer switch but not on generator, the first thing to check is the circuit breakers on the generator. Many users may not be aware that the generator has its own circuit breakers. Locate these breakers, which usually consist of a 20A and 30A breaker, and make sure they are not tripped.

If you don’t have to plug your shore power cord into a separate generator receptacle, you may have a problem with the transfer switch. The transfer switch allows the coach to be powered off shore power or generator, but never both at the same time. As well, it automatically switches between the two. The transfer switch incorporates relays to switch the power, and it is not uncommon for these relays to fail open or closed, which results in the shore power or generator power not functioning properly. The transfer switch is often a black plastic box with three sets of AC wiring entering it. Issues with no AC power while on generator and/or shore power may be related to the transfer switch. Another possible cause of complete lack of AC power may simply be a tripped breaker in the main panel. As mentioned earlier about the generator, it is a good preliminary check to ensure all breakers are in the “on” position before seeking professional help.

Next week I will continue the discussion on AC power and troubleshooting.

About the Author: 

Steve Froese, an avid RV owner, traveler, and Coach-Net member since 2013, is the principal of “A Word to the Wise Technical Communications”, a published RV author, certified RV technician, and licensed Professional Engineer. He frequently collaborates with the “RV Doctor”, Gary Bunzer, and has worked with the RVIA/RVDA as a technical and training writer and consultant. Professionally, he works as a quality engineer and musician. Watch for more of Steve’s work in upcoming Coach-Net publications.

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