• Home
  • Products
  • Join Now!
  • Renew
  • About Us
  • Member Login

Coach-Net

~ Travel and Adventure Blog

Coach-Net

Tag Archives: RV converter

Converters and Inverters – What Is The Difference When It Comes To Battery Charging?

04 Wednesday Jan 2023

Posted by Coach-Net in RV Information, Tech Tips, Tips & Tricks

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

RV Camping, RV converter, RV electrical, RV Inverter, RV Power, RV Safety, RV Tips

There have been several inquiries from owners, old and new, about converters and inverters, and it’s clear that there is some confusion about their capabilities and functions. This is completely understandable, as there are various types of converters and an even greater number of inverters! So, let’s dive in!

Converter

A converter is basically a battery charger that receives 120-volt AC power from either a campground source or a generator and turns it into 12-volt DC power to charge the house battery or batteries. The most basic converter is located in a distribution center alongside the 120-volt circuit breakers and is called an all-in-one unit similar to this style.

The converter/charger is located behind the vents or grills on the right side and has a dedicated circuit breaker which is usually the one closest to the converter.

These are a less expensive model, however, they can be noisy and produce heat so some manufacturers are moving to a standalone model and putting it under the bed or inside cabinetry. There is still a distribution center with circuit breakers and 12-volt automotive-style fuses, but the converter/charger is hidden.

Above is a photo of a WFCO installed under the bed behind a false wall. They can be difficult to find and even more difficult to remove and install the new converter when looking to install lithium batteries!

A typical converter is connected to the house batteries and senses the charge. When the batteries are low, (approximately 50% drained) the converter will provide a charge of approximately 13.6-volts until the batteries reach 12.6-volts which is fully charged. Then the converter will drop to a float charge of 13.2-volts in order to avoid overcharging the battery/batteries.

The disadvantage is that it does not provide proper charging and maintenance. Sulfur will coat the lead plates in lead acid and AGM battery as it drains and only a high voltage charge known as the bulk charge or desulfation charge will break up the coating. Otherwise, it just gets thicker with each draw and eventually greatly reduces the battery’s ability to store power. It can also take 8 hours or longer to charge.

Progressive Dynamics offers a charger that provides 13.8-volts for 8 hours, which creates some desulfation, and the PD9200 with Charge Wizard also does a nice job.

A multi-stage charger will provide a bulk charge at 14.6-16-volts that will break up the sulfation and then moves to an equalizing charge to equalize each cell, followed by a float charge.

NOTE: You do not want to use this type of charger with Lithium Batteries as they require only a 14.6-volt charge and the bulk stage could ruin them!

There is very little maintenance required with either the all-in-one version or the standalone other than to monitor the condition of your lead acid battery/batteries. It is also recommended to periodically check all wiring connections for corrosion and tight fitting. If a converter goes bad it will either lose its ability to charge or not come out of the initial higher charge of 13.6-13.8 volts overcharging the batteries. Be sure to check the fluid level of the battery and in my opinion, it is a good idea to get a good battery monitor other than the three-light versions on the monitor panel.

The monitor shown below is a Go Power! product and is the version we installed in our Thor.

Inverter/Charger

An inverter is designed to take 12-volt DC power from the house battery bank and change or invert it to 120-volt AC power for appliances and outlets. Smaller inverters were first used with the entertainment centers to power just the TV and VCR and were about 100 watts. This was designed to power the TV while boondocking or dry camping temporarily and did not power anything else in the rig.

As more power was needed for other outlets and appliances such as residential refrigerators, larger inverters came along such as the Freedom 2000 which also had a battery charger incorporated.

This type of inverter would not only take 12-volt power from a larger battery bank and provide pure sine wave 120-volt power to several outlets and the residential refrigerator but would also provide a multi-stage charge to the house batteries.

Several companies have made their way into the market with inverters/chargers as low as 1000-watt models. The key in deciding which is right for you is to look at what wattage requirements you need for your rig, the battery bank you have, and the amp rating of the charger.

Companies with a reliable track record according to the RV manufacturers and service centers that I have worked with are Go Power, Xantrex, Victron which Keystone uses, and Renogy.

As with a converter, there is very little maintenance required for inverters other than battery maintenance and periodic checking of connections for corrosion.

Which Do I Need, A Converter Or An Inverter/Charger?


Usually, you don’t have a choice as the rig comes from the factory with a distribution center that has a converter/charger incorporated. This is either in the distribution center, standalone, or an inverter with a charging option.

The time to decide is when the converter fails or you want to upgrade your battery capacity. The determining factor is the amount of time you will be boondocking or dry camping. An inverter is only needed if you are not going to be plugged into a campground source and need to run some 120-volt appliances which would need an inverter or generator power.


About the author: Dave Solberg: Managing Editor, RV Repair Club

For the last 25 years, Dave has conducted RV maintenance and safety seminars, developed dealer and owner training programs, written RV safety and handyman articles authored an RV handbook reference guide, and logged over 100,000 miles on the road in an RV.

RV Repair Club

RV Repair Club is your go-to online resource for enthusiasts who want quality RV maintenance, repair, and upgrade information – a community where passionate RVers can come together to gather knowledge and share their experiences.

Learn more about RV Repair Club.


Ryan C. ~ “Coach-Net was exceptional and did all the leg work to get my tow. They took care of the billing, and all I had to do was wait for the tow truck. No paperwork on site and no hassle whatsoever!”

Share this with your friends:

  • Share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Facebook
  • Share on X (Opens in new window) X
  • Share on Pinterest (Opens in new window) Pinterest
  • Print (Opens in new window) Print
  • Email a link to a friend (Opens in new window) Email
  • More
  • Share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Reddit
  • Share on Tumblr (Opens in new window) Tumblr

Like this:

Like Loading…

RV Battery Types and The Power They Provide

23 Wednesday May 2018

Posted by Coach-Net in Tech Tips

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

RV Batteries, RV battery types, RV converter, RV Inverter, RV tech tip, RV tech tips, RV Tips, tech tip

RV Battery Types12-volt Deep Cycle batteries are the lifeline for RV enjoyment.  Not only do they power the common 12-volt functions like lights, roof vents, and such, but are also essential for powering any appliance running on the LP mode and even the absorption refrigerator on the 120-volt mode as the temperature sensor and monitor panel are powered by the 12-volt batteries!12-Volt battery

For the past 50+ years, RVs have mainly been powered by deep cycle, lead acid batteries which have lead plates placed vertically and are covered with a solution of water and sulfuric acid commonly called electrolyte.  In the RV application there is either a 12-volt battery that consists of 6 cells with plates, each producing 2.1 volts per cell.

The other type is a 6-volt batteries connected in series (positive to negative) which creates 12-volts, however two batteries are needed in this application.  There are only 3 cells per battery and each produces 2.1 volts per cell, so each battery produces 6.3 volts or 12.6 volts total just like the single 12-volt battery.  Each cell consists of a positive lead plate covered with lead dioxide and a negative plate made of a specific type of lead with an insulating material placed between the two plates.

These batteries require a specific multistage charging procedure each month and are subject to sulfation if not stored and charged properly.  They “gas” during the bulk stage charge and lose acid which requires periodic inspection.  Most owners do not properly charge and store their lead acid batteries and therefore they have become a hot topic for replacement options.

Gel batteries where introduced in the Mid 70’s and still maintained the lead plates, but had a gel acid instead of the liquid which was designed to be a superior battery with less maintenance.

AGM batteryThen came the AGM or absorbed glass mat battery which was maintenance free and literally had fiberglass mats inside the battery to absorb the acid and could be stored sideways!  Many RVers believe that replacing the lead acid batteries with AGMs will double the power available.  This is not true, rather the AGM batteries require less maintenance and are less prone to sulfation.  This makes them a more powerful battery only after the lead acid batteries develop sulphur between the plates and lose storage capacity!

In 1980 Lithium Ion batteries were introduced, but were not used much until the early 2000’s as the price was out of this world!

12-volt deep cycle batteries are simply storage devices for power, they can not produce or create voltage without receiving a charge from an outside source known as a charger from either a converter, solar panel, or other source.  The size of the plates and amount of electrolyte determine the storage capacity or amp hours (AH) the battery can provide.  These are classified in terms of “Group” ratings such as Group 24, Group 27 etc.  The higher the group rating, the higher the amp hours and therefore the longer the battery can provide power before needing a recharge.  A typical battery rated for 125 AH can provide 10 amps of power for 12.5 hours, or 20 amps of power for 6.25 hours.

Lead Acid Discharge and Sulfation

When a 12-volt source is activated, such as an interior light or roof vent, a chemical reaction between the lead plates and the electrolyte occurs which produces the energy for the light.  This chemical reaction also begins to coat the positive and negative plates with a yellow build up known as lead sulfate which is normal during the discharge process. Lead sulfate continues to coat the plates as the battery discharges to the 10.5 volt stage at which time they are completely covered.

Lead sulfate can be reconditioned back to lead and electrolyte if conditioned or recharged properly and immediately.  If left in a discharged stage the lead sulfate will form hard crystals that can not be converted back to lead and electrolyte and will diminish the storage capacity.

When not in use, all lead acid batteries will discharge, the rate depends on the condition of the battery, temperature, and what parasitic draw is on the battery.  Typically a battery with no sulfation and with no additional draw, will discharge at approximately 4% per week.

A 125 AH battery left in storage without a charger will lose 5 AH per week which means it will lose 80 AH capacity in four months or well over 50% of it’s capacity in just one year!

Proper Recharging

Lead acid batteries require a multistage charge every month which starts with a bulk charge or high voltage (16V) charge which breaks up the Lead Sulfate on the plates and then goes into an equalizing and float charge.  Typical converters and battery chargers are simply a fixed voltage charger that recognizes a low charge (10.5v) and applied a fixed charge of 13.6 volts, which can not reconvert the lead sulfate on the plates.  Plus, the recharge time is very long compared to a multistage charger.

Some larger inverter/chargers do have a multistage charger which will condition the batteries.  Check your system to see if the charger of your inverter has a multistage and conditioning feature.  During the recharge stage, the water is being converted back to hydrogen and oxygen “gases” and can be flammable.  That is why they are contained in a vented compartment.  This is also why lead acid batteries need to have water added periodically as well.  Sealed batteries such as the AGM type contain the gases and keep them with the electrolyte.Vent well

There are some alternatives to getting a very expensive inverter/charger such as the Battery Minder from Northern Tool.  This device has had much success in the aviation and golf cart industry and is starting to turn some heads in the RV market.  The Battery Minder uses high impact waves rather than high voltage to condition the batteries which means less gassing and less water loss.

Progressive Dynamics has introduced converters/chargers with a smart charging system called the Charge Wizard which recognized the condition of the battery and adjusts the charge accordingly to provide proper conditioning.  For more on their system visit https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/power-converters/

Here are some quick tips for better battery maintenance:

  1. Use a multistage charger or conditioner
  2. Check your fluid level before every trip and add as needed
  3. Match the correct size battery with your 12-volt needs.  Don’t expect to dry camp for days on a group 24 battery!
  4. Find ways to reduce your need for battery power during dry camping such as
  5. Using the campfire to cook and make coffee
  6. Replace halogen and incandescent bulbs with LED
  7. Use a portable Catalytic Heater vs the RV furnace

About the author:

Dave Solberg: Managing Editor, RV Repair Club

For the last 25 years, Dave has conducted RV maintenance and safety seminars, developed dealer and owner training programs, written RV safety and handyman articles, authored an RV handbook reference guide and logged over 100,000 miles on the road in an RV.

RV Repair ClubRV Repair Club is your go-to online resource for enthusiasts who want quality RV maintenance, repair, and upgrade information – a community where passionate RVers can come together to gather knowledge and share their experiences.

Learn more about RV Repair Club.

Tire Discounts

Aww Shucks!

John A. BC.~ “I live in a smaller city in Canada and was curious about how effective the service would be here … but I was pleasantly surprised. The contact person was patient and though it took him a few minutes to locate me, he was very helpful. This is my second experience with Coach Net – the last being in Nevada with my RV, and both experiences were very good. Thank you and keep up the good work!!”

 

 

Share this with your friends:

  • Share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Facebook
  • Share on X (Opens in new window) X
  • Share on Pinterest (Opens in new window) Pinterest
  • Print (Opens in new window) Print
  • Email a link to a friend (Opens in new window) Email
  • More
  • Share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Reddit
  • Share on Tumblr (Opens in new window) Tumblr

Like this:

Like Loading…

The RV Electrical System – Part 2

04 Wednesday May 2016

Posted by Coach-Net in Tech Tips

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

RV converter, RV Electrical System, RV Inverter, RV tech tip, RV Tips, RV Transfer Switch, tech tip

Electricity Part 2This article is the second part of my electrical system primer. This week I will cover the 120V AC system.

When not plugged into shore power, the batteries will power your DC house system directly. As mentioned last week, these systems include, among other things, coach interior lights, bathroom and vent fans, furnace, slide-out and leveling systems, and direct ignition gas appliances. RV Converter When the coach is plugged in, the shore power is shared between the 120V AC appliances and the converter or inverter. Most coaches, except after-market installs and high-end diesels, utilize converters.

Converters come in many forms, and combine with the AC breakers and DC fuses to create the coach power distribution center. When the coach is plugged into shore power these components combine to serve three distinct purposes; the converter section takes some of the AC power from the shore line, converts it to 12V DC, and uses it to charge the batteries, while providing the coach with power for the DC appliances through the 12V fuse panel. The distribution section acts much the same as the breaker panel in your house, as it sends 120V AC to the house appliances through the breaker panel.

Inverters work the opposite way, in that they take 12V DC from the batteries and step it up to 120V AC. There are many different types of inverters, from the simple to the more complex that include battery charging functionality. Inverters even in their simplest form are fairly complex devices that require professional servicing should anything go wrong. As such, they will not be discussed in further detail here.

If your coach has a generator, there is a further element to consider. Once again, generator problems are outside the scope of this article, but there are some things to check if you have power problems with the generator that don’t occur with shore power, or vice-versa. If you have AC power while on shore power, Transfer switch but not on generator, the first thing to check is the circuit breakers on the generator. Many users may not be aware that the generator has its own circuit breakers. Locate these breakers, which usually consist of a 20A and 30A breaker, and make sure they are not tripped.

If you don’t have to plug your shore power cord into a separate generator receptacle, you may have a problem with the transfer switch. The transfer switch allows the coach to be powered off shore power or generator, but never both at the same time. As well, it automatically switches between the two. The transfer switch incorporates relays to switch the power, and it is not uncommon for these relays to fail open or closed, which results in the shore power or generator power not functioning properly. The transfer switch is often a black plastic box with three sets of AC wiring entering it. Issues with no AC power while on generator and/or shore power may be related to the transfer switch. Another possible cause of complete lack of AC power may simply be a tripped breaker in the main panel. As mentioned earlier about the generator, it is a good preliminary check to ensure all breakers are in the “on” position before seeking professional help.

Next week I will continue the discussion on AC power and troubleshooting.

About the Author: 

Steve Froese, an avid RV owner, traveler, and Coach-Net member since 2013, is the principal of “A Word to the Wise Technical Communications”, a published RV author, certified RV technician, and licensed Professional Engineer. He frequently collaborates with the “RV Doctor”, Gary Bunzer, and has worked with the RVIA/RVDA as a technical and training writer and consultant. Professionally, he works as a quality engineer and musician. Watch for more of Steve’s work in upcoming Coach-Net publications.

RV Protect

Share this with your friends:

  • Share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Facebook
  • Share on X (Opens in new window) X
  • Share on Pinterest (Opens in new window) Pinterest
  • Print (Opens in new window) Print
  • Email a link to a friend (Opens in new window) Email
  • More
  • Share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Reddit
  • Share on Tumblr (Opens in new window) Tumblr

Like this:

Like Loading…

Understanding Your RV Converter/Inverter

17 Tuesday Feb 2015

Posted by Coach-Net in Tech Tips

≈ 44 Comments

Tags

converter, inverter, RV converter, RV tech tip, RV Tips, tech tip

Love-your-RVWithout a properly working power converter, RV appliances and electrical fixtures won’t run. The converter ensures that power is properly distributed throughout the RV, 12V is supplied to the DC systems when the RV is plugged in to shore power or running off a generator, and the house batteries are kept charged.  It is one of those “out of sight, out of mind” devices.  However, an alternative to a converter is an inverter.  This article will compare the functions of the converter and inverter. While there are many different types and sizes of the inverter, we will focus on the larger, permanently installed types that also incorporate a battery charger.Understanding your RV Inverter/Converter

Whether converters are stand-alone or modular, they all perform the same three primary functions. First, the device converts some of the incoming 120V AC to 12V DC power for the house system when the RV is connected to shore power or generator. This prevents the house batteries from being drained when the RV has 120V power, and is the function for which the converter is named. An inverter does the opposite and connects directly to the RV batteries to invert (and rectify) the 12V DC to create 120V AC output. Unlike a converter, an inverter creates AC power without the need for shore power or a generator.

Converters also provide a means to distribute power to the different AC and DC circuits in the RV. This power distribution system takes the main power coming from the shore line or generator and distributes it to different branch circuits through individual breaker switches. There is a separate fuse panel for the various 12V house systems. Inverters do not have a distribution system built-in, so require separate fuse panels and breaker boxes to be installed. If you find that you are missing some AC or DC power in your RV, inspecting the circuit breakers and fuses first is suggested.Understanding your RV Inverter/Converter

Finally, both converters and inverter/chargers keep the house batteries charged whenever the RV is plugged in to shore power or the generator is running. It should be noted that while converters incorporate a battery charging feature, the charging current available is often quite low. This means that these converters are not able to properly charge house batteries that are at a low state of charge. Stand-alone high-output battery chargers are required for this purpose. Inverter/chargers usually have much higher battery charging capability, often up to 100 Amps, and charge the batteries by simply reversing the inversion process when the RV is plugged in.

The most important thing to be aware of with an inverter is capacity. Because the inverter must produce ten times the voltage when inverting from 12V to 120V, it also pulls ten times more current from the batteries. For example, if you are watching a TV that requires a 5 Amp AC draw, the inverter is drawing 50 Amps from the batteries.

Although having an inverter installed in your RV is highly recommended, there are a few things to consider. First, due to the large current load required, inverters are unable to power large appliances such as air-conditioners, as the batteries would drain quickly. Generators or shore power are still required for this. Second, invest in a pure sine wave inverter, as regular inverters produce a square wave that can easily damage sensitive electronics. Finally, it is a good idea to incorporate a solar panel array with the inverter system. This provides for some battery voltage recovery while dry camping.

About the Author:

Coach-Net is pleased to welcome Steve Froese to our team of writers. Steve, an avid RV owner, traveler, and  Coach-Net member since 2013, is the principal of “A Word to the Wise Technical Communications”, a published RV author, certified RV technician, and licensed Professional Engineer. He frequently collaborates with the “RV Doctor”, Gary Bunzer, and has worked with the RVIA/RVDA as a technical and training writer and consultant. Professionally, he works as a quality engineer and musician. Watch for more of Steve’s work in upcoming Coach-Net publications.

*Images within the body content were provided by and used with permission from the author.

RV Protect

Share this with your friends:

  • Share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Facebook
  • Share on X (Opens in new window) X
  • Share on Pinterest (Opens in new window) Pinterest
  • Print (Opens in new window) Print
  • Email a link to a friend (Opens in new window) Email
  • More
  • Share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Reddit
  • Share on Tumblr (Opens in new window) Tumblr

Like this:

Like Loading…

Subscribe

To subscribe to our monthly enewsletter, visit the homepage www.Coach-Net.com

Coach-Net Members

Access your benefits and services by logging in to My Coach-Net

Categories

  • Favorite Recipes
  • Getting To Know You
  • Healthy Lifestyle
  • Holidays in your RV
  • Kids and Camping
  • National Parks
  • Roadside Assistance
  • RV Information
  • RV Newbie
  • RV Safety
  • Tailgating
  • Tech Tips
  • The Great Outdoors
  • Tips & Tricks
  • Travel Destinations
  • Traveling with your Pet
  • Uncategorized
  • We Love It. We Live It.

Archives

Follow Us

  • Facebook
  • X
  • Instagram
© Coach-Net. All Right Reserved. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this blog’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Coach-Net and with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.

Powered by WordPress.com.

Loading Comments...

    %d